Warriors vs Clippers | GM-20|

Appreciate that shoutout Alch. Much love bro. You one of the only I watch when it comes to basketball breakdowns. You... Reddick.. and Jason Timpf. You got a Patron for life with me

Ballin Forever

This entire dynasty I thought Klays game would age the best. Sad to see it go down like this.

Vulacior

Completely agree about Klay & the herb. Much love to Klay but the assumed high volume toking is having an impact. Also, I feel you on the biggest shift he needs to make is mental approach. Embrace the transition & don’t fight it. Sadly, may only come with the humility of being in another jersey and no longer having guaranteed minutes.

stephen rice

That's the biggest issue. Even Kerr is less motivated. 9 chips is not a joke so having that brings pride, stubbornness and the feeling of "its fine". They want more chips, they needs a mind shift now or fresh legs with Steph and Dray

ItsWhATItIs

It's a lil hard to not look at Kerr and think about the last dance cos doing what's best for the team vs ride it out with my boys might be what's in his head. And sadly, that has made tactics out of the window. I don't care how Draymond was shooting. With 8 secs left, not drawing up a decent pick and roll or pick and pop. You need to have a decent shot with Steph or Klay and we'll all live with that, make or miss

ItsWhATItIs

I'm okay with Draymond taking that last shot, given how the game played out. Something i noticed, in the 1H when shots were going in, the core players (Curry and Dray) were screaming at the clippers bench through out. Like i always say, let sleeping giants lie. Lost too many games already, no reason to go there or trash

Erin Laskey

Hey Alch, I saw your youtube video in which you specifically addressed C.Joseph. Yes, you're right, he's a tenacious defender. But to call him an "elite defender", well, that's quite a stretch imo. But regardless, does his above average defense compensate for his thorough ineptitude on the other side of the court? What I'm seeing is a guy who has a handful of points in 20 games (has he scored yet?). Seriously, the guy can't create for himself, he regularly clangs wide open shots, and he seems to struggle to even initiate the offense with the first entry pass. (Can someone look up his stats, specifically points and assist to turnover ratio?) Can't Podge (or even Draymond) bring the ball up court? Wouldn't you rather KJ or Moody get those minutes? Kerr is stingy with Moody's minutes but his reluctance to put KJ on the court is some next level shit. He begrudgingly puts him in but is always ready to pull him out, it almost seems like he's just giving him token minutes (what does he get, max 15 per game?) to shield himself from the critics clamoring for more KJ. Of course we all understand Kerr's knee jerk reflex to play Clay (maybe even at the expense of a hot shooting Moody) but those Joseph minutes are just untenable in my mind. The guy gives you nothing. More Moody and KJ please! And what's up with this new trend, i.e. completely unraveling during the 4th quarter? It's happened like 5 games in a row now. So far our bench has kept us in several games but now the CP3 / Saric connection is gone which will make the second unit less fun and less effective. And with GP2 out, we also lose our best on ball defender and easy points off of turnovers. My concern is that we'll get to January with the team still under-performing and management will make a panic move. I don't want anyone to get traded honestly, but if a trade MUST be made imo there's no one riper for an emergency escape ejection than Clay. Instead we'll undoubtedly lose a younger, more talented (at this point in their respective careers) player like Wiggins, JK, or Moody. And that's gonna suck.

Childe Costa

Moody is good, but we also need to know where is Kuminga right now and what he can be with lots of minutes because if he's not ready to contribute, maybe we can trade him, but you never know until you try. We need his possible rim-protection ability, athleticism because with GP2 out and Wiggs the way he's and likely he will not change, he's the only superior athlete we have.

I totally agree with the closing lineups but I would have picked Saric over Green for a final possession. Imagine Saric taking that corner three. I don't think Draymond likes the corners anyway.

Alex Kay

If Klay is out in a hypothetical, I'd like all those minutes to go to Moody Alc. Does the little things and can space the floor. Also the 4 starters + Moody lineup has a really good net rating

Julian

Man, I really don’t think Steph’s defense is that bad. He doesn’t have the physical tools to just bully guys on ball, he has to be making smart decisions constantly. And on most on ball possessions, he does a decent job of moving his feet, can’t really ask more than that from your 35 year old superstar, can’t really expect him to lock up James Harden at the 3pt line

Billy Roberson

Dray looked really good but I think Kerr has to be more dynamic with closing lineups. I know we're low on some key players right now, but would've loved to see more JK in the fourth considering the matchups. He looks quicker and stronger than the Clips' older wings now, especially with Wiggs out. 110% agree on Steph/Klay's defense. I think Steph can carry in the playoffs/close games still if he sees the rest of the team is there for the ride but at the moment: Wiggs is checked out, Klay feasting on some space cookies, CP3 injured, GP2 injured and these young guys gunning for more minutes, who I can't tell if he enjoys playing with or not tbh

Abhi Kelkar

Draymond was great. Imagine: Put back/dunk from Kuminga/TJD/Santos on that last possession..... Moody is fined for flopping yesterday. SGA flopped in OKC vs Twolves. But ofc Adam Silver wouldn't want to punish a Skims Shapewear spokesmodel. The officiating in the last few games re-confirm refs parlay is a real thing: Clippers, Thursday - Umpire #87 Danielle Scott. She intentionally called a foul even though she had a clear view of Podz. She didn't make a mistake. 100% intentional. Then the crew realized they've exposed themselves & that's why it was fair officiating from that point on. LeBron and Udoka - Umpire #72 JT Orr. I've never seen a ref be so protective of a player over trash talking. He looked at LeBron like he's on LeBron's payroll....hmmmm. And ofc he issued techs to both of them. That's what you'd do to avoid triggering suspicion.....................

Bailey

I think with Steph it's at least partially that he knows, whether subconsciously or consciously, that with the way things are now he can't carry this team and isn't willing to kill himself to try. As for his defense, well he's 35. We've all been yelling for over a year that Steph needs to be surrounded with people who MAKE UP for his lack of ability to devote energy to both ends -- and this did not really happen, mainly due to Klay and Wiggs being MIA. It's no wonder we're in the shit.

Neal X

There's a reason why dynasties end and why they're incredibly different to maintain -- key ingredients to the success leave, age, injury, maintaining hunger and drive. We're seeing it all.

Neal X

When we won the ‘22 chip I felt like we kinda got away with our lack of urgency and lack of size and athleticism. But they won’t so no one could say anything. “What they done say now?” right? And don’t get me wrong that might’ve been the peak of our fandom and I’m eternally grateful, but it also might’ve solidified in their minds they don’t ever have to change to win. Now that they’re clearly showing aging and a lack of hunger, it’s just tough to make up for the lack of talent and size on a nightly basis. We need a shake up, and if I were to bet Dunleavy is the man for the job. Also knowing what we know of Lacob he’s not gonna tolerate prolonged mediocrity.

Luke Zhang

With his current salary and offball impact he's the most ideal fit for sure. But I think I am in the minority of Dubs fans that would sacrifice Kuminga to acquire Lauri (even though I am high on JKs future) Markkanen would step in and be the 2nd option offensively while being a nice fit with his size next to Dray in the closing minutes.

Stevie Ray

The entire core 3 are wired like this. But you’re right, Steph is the de facto ringleader of “Unnecessary Risky Bullshit”. It’s the gift and the curse of his time gracing our television screens, and the engine behind his marksmanship. I think the relevant question is what kind of players does he NEED around him to mitigate this insatiable urge to do dumb shit and still allow him to win at a high level.

yan't get right

The Warriors would need to get back their 2030 pick from DC. We traded them a top 20 protected pick that turns into a 2nd so its sort of a fake 1st (depending on your projection of the warriors future). But if we could get that pick pack they could send 3 unprotected 1sts. Maybe that would be enough, likely it would require at least 2 firsts and Kuminga. But all the noise around Lauri as a trade target have been external. Nothing coming out of Utah about having him available so likely the price would be quite high and their are many teams like OKC or the Pels where he would fit perfectly and they can outbid the Warriors.

Stevie Ray

Still hurts that warriors didn’t try to trade for porzingis… I just want to see if steph could benefit from an offensively talented big for once… didn’t know he was 6’10 though

Offtopic K

Ive been seeing Markannen name alot. Is he a realistic target??

Ballin Forever

That was a great 13 minute video ruined by 5 seconds of Chris Paul’s fit. What da…

Jacob

I feel like Klay's stamina is the biggest issue. That's why he has to play at half the pace he used to play at

Qiushi Hu

Well whether he’s 3rd, 5th, or 8th doesn’t matter to me too much. I think he proved last years playoffs he can still be head of the snake on a contender. And that’s what matters more to me. I think you’re right though, the defense is not where it was in ‘22 and the turnovers have looked BAD. But, I think some of that also has to do with him playing with Klay (just hasn’t been very good this year) and Wiggins (ditto). If he had more sound pieces around him I think he could do less on offense, allowing him to play better D and turn it over less.

Sam Jefferson

Those minutes at the end of the third quarter were hard to watch. Having two non shooters in looney and JK together with Podz, Klay and CoJo. No real offense and bad defense - Klay Hit some tough ones but I thought we got cooked in these minutes

Jakob

@Enzo... Alot of that is due to his athleticism.. he is just a really good athlete. Klay isnt useless.. he is just in a situation that requires him to be something he no longer is. When your backline is Looney or Saric.. your mistakes are compounded. However with someone like Duncan Robinson or Herro.. Bam and Jimmy are on the backline .. they cleaning everything up. Or DLO and Reaves.. AD and Bron are cleaning everything up. When you have poor perimeter defenders... you gota have a cleanup crew. When guards and wings see Looney or Saric in that back line... they see BBQ chicken and become ultra aggressive. Which in turn puts even more pressure on Steph and Klay.

Ballin Forever

@Stevie Ray... I would give alot for Markannen. He puts us over the top.

Ballin Forever

If draymond can’t get on klay when he fucks up over and over again no one will so the only solution is trading him

Dami I

Acquiring Grant likely would not require any young assets. 1 or 2 unprotected firsts attached to one of our expiring contracts would outbid the market. Likely they'd prefer Klay because they could get off Thybull in the deal as well. Klay + unprotected 2026 (and maybe a swap) For Grant + Thybull Would likely get it done But 2026 + 2028 would be more than any other team would pay. It's the Toronto wings or Markkanen that would cost Kuminga.

Stevie Ray

Nah I didn’t like those min.. I didn’t realize he was so gun shy offensively. Looks like he has to be a corner shooter if he is out there

Athletic Alchemy

And Alc, Corey Jo's presence of offense is one of the biggest reason this game shifted. He sits with the ball on the wing for 8-10 seconds with his back facing the basket and just aimlessly dribbles the air out of the ball till the clock is in panic. He should be a break n case of emergency guard not a rotation player

Stevie Ray

Hi Leonard, remember to hit save after you edit. Or maybe you are a man of few words and are just asking all of us to reflect on our lives...

Russ

2nd last possession, Kerr makes the substations for a "Defensive Lineup" Some how Klay is the middle Never gonna have the top 5 defense required for a title with Thompson starting and closing games Even if the return is unfavorable, a Klay Thompson trade would provide serious addition by subtraction

Stevie Ray

@Russ.. yea that finger issue is a weird reason to just sit out the next two games. He has looked good as of late... but like Alch says.. idk how long he is gona keep up that competitive stamina. I really think we should consider some trade options and answer phone calls before the deadline. I dont think trading Klay is a possibility... but I think Kuminga.. Moody.. CP3.. Wiggs should all be considered if it means bringing in some ready to win pieces.

Ballin Forever

Then if Zach is right, and I think Zach is a solid analyst, then we ride out another year of Stephs window and go for whatever we can do this year. Maybe Klay gets hot, he won't stop chucking that much we know, maybe he starts playing defense and stays hot for a sustained time. CP3 is playing well enough and we all know both of them have contracts that expire this year. I'm just not sure Klay and his 43 mn for this year has any trade value, so the team saying that they won't trade him is likely true, he would be hard to trade in any case.

Russ

im gonna get heat for this but objectively alch, do you still think steph is a top 5 player in the league? The defense is actually horrible and his offense seems very turnover prone and honestly has been very bad in the clutch generally

Alex Lee

adam silver's script does not like the warriors this year 💀 kerr is gonna have to go back to that hs shit and make them run suicides everytime they blow a lead

Johnny Marko

OK, see your point. I'd love either of them as well. And Levine is out there, but I'm loving the way Pod, Moody, JK and TJK look and that's the problem, they are cheap and good and have futures. Wigs Klay and CP3 are expensive, old, and have depreciating futures. Wigs is my question mark, is he ever going to play like he did when he was playing for the salary? IDK, he could be great again, but who knows.

Russ

Thing is PG is way more effective on the offensive and and not totally useless even tho the defense isn’t quite there but comparing PG to Klay, Klay is useless out there and it sad to watch

Enzo Cree

The warriors won‘t trade Klay according to Zach Lowe and the the warriors do not have to trade CP3, as his contract expires.

Jakob

Podz is legit.

Omer Ali

It’s def a combo of a few things, it’s hoping everything clicks and Kerr’s stubbornness.. like you said Klay too busy being out to lunch and looking for the homerun plays.. He’s so much more effective when he plays within the game and being a playmaker which always throws the opposing defenses off because they don’t expect that.. He would start out playing good then second half go right back to the bs again.

Enzo Cree

Leonard Clark

LAL have a similar problem with DLO and Reaves. Ham made the decision to bench Reaves and start with a more defensive minded lineup. And it worked. Kerr is gona have to make a tough decision. Maybe less minutes for Klay means fresher legs and more engagement. Idk if he can handle that mentally tho...

Ballin Forever

there are so many things wrong with this team. I don't think one trade is gonna fix all these issues. Especially the players that are gonna available. If you go all in on a player like Pascal. is he gonna turn this into an elite defensive unit? They won in 2022 by being an elite defensive unit and middle-of-the-pack offense.Teams get in the 4th and just do what they want to Warriors. The defense is a way bigger issue to me at least.I would try to make a move on the margins. Like get Claxton from the Nets and go into the offseason with the money available from klay/cp3 contract up.People are gonna say that your wasting the Core time but they are part of the problem. They cant blame the bench this year. They came in with a 10-point lead and got walked down. Also kerr is not a dynamic coach anymore sadly.

mr.bean

@Russ.. im not saying them specifically. Im talking about the type of player. They were the first that came to mind.

Ballin Forever

I love watching Moody, Pod, and JK most of the time. Klay just makes me pissed off, love the notice on him not landing on his right leg Alch, brilliant catch, we knew he was leaning way too much but I never thought about watching for which leg. He probably put up millions of shots during rehab when he just had to land softly on that leg and it became a habit. And about trading our underperforming players, that's the entire problem that every team has, teams end up with overpaid underperforming players, it's really hard to get valuable assets in return. And asking teams to take more of our underperforming overpaid assets doesn't make it better, it's likely worse. The more deadwood u r dumping the less you get back. Everyone will want Moody, JK, TJD or Pod. I don't know if that's a thing we want to do. I'd love to dump Klay, Wigs, CP3 and their salaries but who will give us value for those dumps?

Russ

I was watching Buils Bucks and I was kinda taken back by how much bigger Lopez and even BP looked next to him. He is actually only 6'10.. Id consider him on a dump, but not giving up any picks or young players

Athletic Alchemy

Same here… I get you on the slow footing but is he slower than loon? I think bulls devalued Vuc effectiveness… I’m looking at how he could help as a rebounder and a body to stay in front of the bigs. He does average a block for his career. Maybe he could get to 1.5-2 in our system

Offtopic K

nah it will cost draft capital and a young player no doubt

Athletic Alchemy

I was just saying the same thing to my Wife yesterday.. I understand the frustration with his volatility but... He looks like he wants to win and compete at a high level to the bitter end

Athletic Alchemy

Trade Klay for Grant or Siakam? Why not go for Jokic? Klay isn't worth anywhere near Grant or Siakam.. I like the idea of trading Klay of course but do u want to add Moody and or JK to get Grant or Siakam, make the trade more reasonable even in theory.

Russ

thats the thing.. we got a lot of piece! Look at the Clip they are basically stuck with hoping what they got can all of a sudden click

Athletic Alchemy

He is super slow footed I dont think he would give us any rim protection... but at the same time I cant act like im tuning into Bulls games nightly

Athletic Alchemy

I try to see the good in a loss.. Maybe it’s been but Podz has legitimately made a case to be Steph’s official back up.. As for wigs well he got his money and ring so Mike Dun should look to move Wigs, CP and Klay at the trade deadline we can def get a nice return for all 3.. Klay for PG straight up would be my first trade

Enzo Cree

Have to tip my hat to Draymond. A lot of players made a lot of promises over the summer, but Drays really the only one who has clearly delivered on his promise to improve. Getting his offense back must have taken a lot of real work this summer.

Ejikeme Uzoigwe

When it comes to those horrible high-risk passes Steph throws, I wonder if that's his way of getting dopamine into his system. Steph has played the most basketball in the league outside of Lebron. It doesn't matter how much you love something, doing something for as long and often as they do can eventually become mundane, especially for a random regular-season game in early December. Throwing those silly passes in tight games is Steph's way of getting his brain excited and engaged. I'm not excusing it. I'm just trying to explain the psychology behind it. I'm sure we've all experienced it in some form where intentionally make a task more risky in order to capture that adrenaline rush and thrill of escaping the consequence by the skin of our teeth.

Leedoman

hmmm.. My read is he was thirsty to move on.. that was the Wise and kuminga picks. Then perhaps over corrected after the surprise chip

Athletic Alchemy

Thanks! My pronunciation is sus, I blame my Pops and African side of the family for that lol... but My Mom was a English teacher for 30+ years so got give her credit for that

Athletic Alchemy

Is it the mentality of Vuc? I’m just looking at him as a better version of dario… I think we could officially do away with the draymond and looney shared minutes and pair draymond with Vuc and loon plays with dario…

Offtopic K

bruh the celly would been all time!

Athletic Alchemy

Im bout done with it.. " he warmed up and said it will clear up in a few days" ? while we playing a team full of big wings

Athletic Alchemy

I have a thought, maybe it's Lacob who is all bought-in on the Core 3 retiring Warriors? Who's to say the Dynasty for him isn't more important right now than being a Championship level team? Certainly seems like he's hedging his bets with this new WNBA team.

Allison Hendrix

Its funny I feel like in all walks of life as we age, its harder to stay motivated and disclpnied

Athletic Alchemy

I dont want Vuc.. but I am at the same point tbh

Athletic Alchemy

nah I may have said that wrong.. Im seeing the same thing form PG as Klay and Steph.. only his size and athleticism masks it way more

Athletic Alchemy

Alch you have a great vocab man

Seb P

Alch I agree that PG effort level is still high while being a similar age as Klay. But i would also like to add that PG base level of athleticism is still high. I seen bro slam home a windmill recently. When you have your legs... its easier to lock in because you feel good. It all plays into your mental Like you pointed out with Klay's right leg... when you dont fully trust your legs anymore.. its hard to lock in defensively when its time to really move.. slide your feet... and chase guys. And as a shooter.. the only thing you can really trust is your jumpshot. In a weird way... i really believe the distrust in his legs is causing Space Cadet Klay.

Ballin Forever

strong take! beyond just laterally not moving the same and being on the ball, the mental errors by klay idk man they are very disturbing to me. But I agree a true rim protector could change everything

Athletic Alchemy

I love how the guys got more mins, I think ker is sending a message to the vet

weng

Couldn’t put my finger on how we lost this game… honestly Im ready to take that step and trade klay and Wiggins to give kuminga and moody opportunity.. maybe we can get vucevic in a trade for them… I just want them off my team at this point

Offtopic K

Klay's issues are exacerbated by our lack of rim protection. He is no worse than guys like Herro.. Robinson.. and other shooters defensively. However they are hidden by a mountain of good rim protectors on the back line. Small ball works when there are great point of attack defenders on the frontline that can contain dribble drives. However in the Warriors situation.. Klay is no longer a good point of attack defender nor is he locked into the overall schemes. That is part of what separated him from the Reddicks Korvers etc. Now that he and Steph are aged... i dont think we can just have Looney on the back line anymore. We gota upgrade that Center position. OR.... trade Klay for a Jerami Grant.. Siakam type player. Unfortunately.

Ballin Forever

it often looks like they want it less than we fans do-I know that sounds kind of ignorant because of course they want it-they're pros. But-the casual to non-conscious defense, the lack of urgency-wait, maybe that's them knowing they're going to lose instead of win? Whatever it is-they are starting to develop a losing attitude while simultaneously celebrating their past as winners. Like "we won with this core-therefore we don't have to take criticism because we won in the past". Meanwhile-they are defining themselves as a losing team. Moody, JK need more minutes to see what they are-I like what I see from both of them. Steve Kerr is not impressing me with his on-the-court coaching; he is a great guy and has done wonders for us old time Cazzie Russell/Rick Barry/Nate Thurmond vintage fans by helping win championships-in the past. But it's not looking good now.

Paul Hanson

Great stuff, Alch. Wiggins seems hard to motivate. I can't tell if it's just him, or if he's also a culture casualty of Core Three over team.

Thomas Ogas

Imagine bdds confidence in his shot if he moneyed that game winner. Dude would be on his pod 5 mins later talking his shit 😂

Connor H

Go 9ers indeed. We’re seeing a turning point this month

Jacob Ricafrente

Man it was heartbreaking . I agree too much weed for klay .

Lucky D

One of the funniest endings to a game I've ever watched. Made the whole game feel like a bad omen

Andy Williams

https://streamable.com/vaxtvf

Athletic Alchemy