SamuKata
alexandergrace
alexandergrace

patreon


PATREON EXCLUSIVE (Full Video): Nice guys aren't nice if they are only nice to women. They need to be nice to themselves

PATREON EXCLUSIVE (Full Video): Nice guys aren't nice if they are only nice to women. They need to be nice to themselves

Comments

@JO I’ll check it out, but I’m not a huge fan of theirs. I don’t have a particular problem with them; I’m just not particularly compelled by them. Thanks for the rec though! Sometimes people I don’t enjoy on video I do enjoy in text.

RhodiumMaiden

@RhodiumMaiden - Then it's possible you may also be interested in this similar title ("A Hunter‑Gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century") by another husband and wife team that I respect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U5CfXuY8KI&list=PLYOlnsoB5tcLlRmorKwny_wWNV0fCcgli

Joseph Omega

I generally hate self-help books, but I can’t think of anyone who wouldn’t benefit it from reading their book. I’m going to reread it shortly and I almost never re-read books.

RhodiumMaiden

@RhodiumMaiden - I have not read the Colins' book, but I imagine the philosophy. Also, I don't think this is not about "Altruism" (in the moralistic sense). I don't know if I already posted this long conversation with ChatGPT, inspired by Alexander's video on the subject: https://chatgpt.com/share/67354622-ad5c-800a-ad47-966255548ef4 Here is the summary conclusion: "Sustainability is the crucial factor that determines whether acts of niceness and kindness are healthy and effective in the long run. When these acts are sustainable, they can have a lasting, positive impact, allowing individuals to continue contributing to others’ well-being. Prioritizing oneself is justified when it serves the purpose of maintaining this sustainability, ensuring that kindness is not only present in the short term but also capable of being sustained over a lifetime. This approach allows for the optimal balance between self-care and self-sacrifice, ultimately leading to greater and more enduring positive outcomes for all involved." And there was this brief exchange on the origins and use of the expression "self-care": https://chatgpt.com/share/65735068-6ffc-4693-86d3-6812119648a4

Joseph Omega

@JO I can’t imagine that the scenario, but I’ll take your word for it. And I don’t think it’s childish. I think it’s always necessary to prioritise yourself to an extent. Even an act of great self sacrifice should be in service to one’s fundamental values. Have you read the Collinses’s book the pragmatist’s guide to life? I really enjoyed it and as they would say, you need to prioritise your ideological tree. I guess I don’t really believe in true altruism.

RhodiumMaiden

@RhodiumMaiden - Yeah, I don't think you have the right word. Still, self-awareness CAN occur at the same time as GENERAL awareness -- only afterwards did it seem appropriate to make the CONSCIOUS decision to prioritize yourself over others, at least for the time being. Perpetually prioritizing oneself regardless of context seems more the purview of a child, not a responsible adult.

Joseph Omega

@JO But I’d argue the very first step to self-awareness is selfishness. You can’t take care OF yourself if you don’t care ABOUT yourself. It’s kinda like putting on your own oxygen mask before you put on your child’s. Maybe selfishness is not quite the right word but there is a type of selfishness which I think is necessary to self-esteem and self-awareness.

RhodiumMaiden

@aldon - Chivalry, selflessness, and self- sacrifice are completely different concepts. Selflessness is a general attitude of putting others first, while self-sacrifice is a more intense, specific act of giving up something valuable for the sake of others. Chivalry is about adherence to certain social ideals. Earlier we were talking about the similarities between self care, self love, and selfishness.

Eric Linden

@RhodiumMaiden - I did not get the impression that Alexander's message was for men to become "more selfish", but to become more self-aware (self-caring) during their effort at "niceness" or "kindness". You MAY be interested in the thread I started later in this comment section on the topic (that eventually explored chilvary and graciousness), if you have not already reviewed it.

Joseph Omega

@aldon - Many do not consider self-sacrifice to be always ZERO-SUM. In fact, like love, it is often said to defy conservation laws: You get more out of it the more you give it away. There is also the selfless principle of just "Paying it forward". You may be interested in the ENTIRE long conversation I had with ChatGPT on the topic: https://chatgpt.com/share/67354622-ad5c-800a-ad47-966255548ef4 I received some valuable insights during the exchange, especially at the very end when "sustainabilty" was discussed. If you are TRULY a glutton for punishment, you may also be interested in an equally long exchange I had on the related topic of "Co-Dependency": https://chatgpt.com/share/66ff566b-0b60-800a-8961-0f4882592cd5

Joseph Omega

Is chivalry/graciousness really considered a self-sacrifice? Not once I thought of it as sacrificing or giving up something. I wrote my opinion about helping others here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/patreon-is-dead-71104835 (that URL... :D) If helping others hurts you in some way, in most cases you shouldn't do it and never with strangers. It should come from a position of power: rich person sharing wealth with needy, not a person living from paycheck to paycheck donating their last dollar. You should help others if it feels right, not because you have to or it's expected of you but because you built yourself such a prosperous life, that you can and want to share your energy/resources with those in need.

aldon

Vid stopped playing at like 5:47 but when I went back to 5:40 it played fine 🤷‍♀️

RhodiumMaiden

Yes yes yes! Men need to be more selfish! Thank you for finally explaining why ‘nice guys’ are so annoying.

RhodiumMaiden

@Peter - That certain someone just said they just unblocked YOU.

Joseph Omega

@Peter - I guess, using your definition, I can say "validating". Meaning that many of my hypotheses concerning this person's mental and emotional state were supported, and that I am happy with the results of my predictions. But no I, in NO way, feel hampered by any looming threat of another impetuous blockage -- I remain steadfast and committed to the principle of "stoic strength", to which she is obviously attracted. No, there were no warnings last time.

Joseph Omega

🤷‍♂️ hmm how is that for you?are your interactions going to be hampered by the knowledge that that is a looming threat. If you say something wrong and they don’t like they just “block “ you, ? Im guessing there was no for warnings the last time. I generally communicate that fact. “I don’t want this because” “respect the request and boundary. Me offering an explanation was just a curtesy and not an invitation to negotiations on this boundary “ “if this continues i will be forced to block you. Your choice “

Peter

@Peter - Ah, I get it. 👍 BTW, that certain someone just UNBLOCKED me again. Go figure. 🤷‍♂️

Joseph Omega

@J O yes indeed i used it in a different manner. To me validation. Is the feeling of validity. However one achieves it. Personal interaction or otherwised. You can argue with someone but at the end feel very much validated . Your opinions and ideas . You feel they have validity. Not so much someone someone telling you,” You are correct” validating your experiences. Synonyms would be like affirmed , found what you were looking for, satisfied, happy with the result. 🙋‍♂️

Peter

@Peter - Curious though about your use of the word "validation". Usually it relates to an interpersonal dynamic between individuals, but I suspect you may have used it in a slightly different context here. I suspect it may not be that important, but can you elaborate? BTW, here's what our good old AI oracle said: https://chatgpt.com/share/8e8d63ce-e1d4-497d-b5a7-40eecc095812

Joseph Omega

@Peter - ✊

Joseph Omega

@Mr Omega: im glad you found validation in your interactions. Regardless if it was cut short. On we all shall move , invariably. 🙋‍♂️

Peter

@Peter - As I said, I am genuinely grateful for having the privilege of having interacted with such a unique female psychology -- normally I would have neither the patience nor motivation to maintain such a dialogue, absent of this "manspace" and the context of Alexander's provocative videos. I don't know if you guys feel the same.

Joseph Omega

@Eric Linden - Indeed. Perhaps a more apt alternative to Alexander's "boat" versus "island" analogy, could be a "boat and seas" versus "island" analogy -- to capture the capricious nature of the mood swings of women, and the potential deleterious effect that they may have on any island's coastline and ecosystem. That these boats and captains are expert in their ability to navigate their high seas without capsizing, lays testement to their incredible seamanship.

Joseph Omega

@Eric Linden - 😅

Joseph Omega

It was getting kinda difficult to follow the EC/JO conversation happening under multiple videos. Looks like we may all have a bit more time on our hands now. Part of the problem is we are typing instead of speaking face to face. Since the advent of texting, I have had multiple misunderstandings with people who are in person very good communicators. Also, as we and AG have noted, women are in general more emotional than men. You can say something that today will be taken positively, but tomorrow will get you blocked. Emotional intelligence, being in control of your emotions, is something that is lacking in certain people. Looking forward to hearing from, discussing, agreeing and disagreeing, and learning from you all; and even occasionally changing my mind on something.

Eric Linden

Tldr: i don’t know what that might have been. And i don’t actually know what percipitated this. The aspect of getting blocked its a more mature discussion. How and what behavoir led to it. To be more socially attuned (and decide for one self. Is this something i want to change. Or is it good and whether its popular or not, im sticking to my guns) . The exploration of how and why and how you are affected. That is interesting to me . The other stuff is thertially important.

Peter

@Omega 😅 i didn’t mention a name coz i didn’t want to put anyone on blast. Talking about it at all, it feels like it could be petty or reaching out indirectly. And i definitely want to get away from pandering for interactions. But that it happened might be interesting to explore. If its obvious and predictable. But that is dangerously specific. And finally its in bad taste to talk ABOUT PEOPLE. Them not being involved to add context or defend them selfs . To talk about the topic of “getting blocked” In this case what ever i posted that got me in hot water. I don’t know what it was. Further i don’t remember anyone saying “you have embarrassed me.” “This how it makes me feel and maybe a how and why” In that case, I do recall calling out anti male or what i considered unkind and antagonistic takes or words. And i thought it was because of calling that out. Like this guy is always up my ass for “ prodding fun”, let me prod and poke in peace. Don’t need his virtue signaling. Back to in general I have that effect often enough, to know its me. How i engage. Be it preachy or passive aggressive. I get those. You generally know what you have going on when you said that. I also get why i may do it. Compounded by some neurodiversity. Uts not a reason or exciting, just context I hadnt considered it COULD happen. Hence my suprise. And comment coz i was “ooooooh, this would explain alot” enough to think. Might be a point of interest for others. Not the specifics… thats why i didnt mention a name or anything. But the dynamics of. Stepping on toes, and what that does with you. I probably didn’t make that clear enough. That is one me. Being in the manosphere i think bashed head onnideas is common. The negative or positive interactions and what they do with you, is the interesting part to me. And how i feel about it is a bit of an bit of a litmus test for myself. How emotional was i, how reactive, how defensive, how petty, how mature.

Peter

@Peter - A shame indeed: I had mentioned before that I AM fascinated by "abnormal female psychology" -- I was learning SO much. BTW, to be honest, I think she rather ENJOYED the "rudeness" -- her EXACT words: "@Joseoh Omega Your dirty for a conservative man, I like it." In that one regard at least, she DOES exhibit "normal female psychology". About a day ago, quite out of the blue, she said: "Peter posted something embarrassing for me on a video." In the spirit of her continuing psychoanalysis (AND if you are willing to share -- no problem if not), do you know to what she may have been referring?

Joseph Omega

Was a shame though. I don’t think you were rude or anything

Peter

@Peter - Well, we now have BOTH been blocked by that certain person -- I guess I wasn't being too nice either. 😏 Here is the un-nice message that I'd posted as a response to one of her's: "@E C - In your neverending efforts to SIMPlify in this Patreon, may I point out this video from one of your favourite YouTubers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtF3cCp3GDY ?"

Joseph Omega

By the way, my name is totally real. And I’m probably easily discoverable. If only someone wanted to discover me…

Eric Linden

@E C - Your call. But beware of "affirmative therapy". Something to think about: https://chatgpt.com/share/a4cb564d-225f-4f2b-bdf3-cec55bb39e07 Good night.

Joseph Omega

@E C - A bit surprised perhaps. But are you doing this for THEM ... or for YOU?

Joseph Omega

@E C - See? I knew you could do it. Easy-peasy. Oh, and they certainly HAVE noticed -- it is YOU who have not noticed that THEY have. YOU are the only one who thinks you are invisible.

Joseph Omega

@E C - Are you deliberately ignoring the advice you were given? Tell you what, rather than again answering what should be obvious, I'd like to invite you instead to search inwards to your own intellectual humility here to answer each of your own questions -- call it a practice test. Remember: No drama, no gaslighting, no paranoia, and no hysteria. Can you do it?

Joseph Omega

@E C - Good luck on your therapy. Remember that "Intellectual Humility" is your strongest and most versatile and dependable ally in any struggle towards healing and combating self esteem issues. Once again, I encourage you to unblock at least TWO of this Patreon's members as one last act of rejuvenating reconciliation.

Joseph Omega

@E C - I'm honored. Good night.

Joseph Omega

@E C - Fair enough. Well at least you didn't block me -- that's progress. 💁‍♂️

Joseph Omega

@E C - I certainly post AN entire name. Still, if your "first name is not that personal", why did you ever use "E C" to begin with? Will you next be posting your LAST name here as well? Remember that YOU were the one who admitted to "oversharing"? Just looking out for your welfare. But enough of all that: Will you be contributing to the new "trap" that Alexander set for you in his most recent video: "Loyalty is not a feminine value"?

Joseph Omega

Erica.

Eric Linden

@Eric Linden - I think romantic relationships are either a trade of chivalry for gratitude, or physical intimacy for emotional intimacy. Cheating exists when agreed upon rules are violated. What each couple agrees upon may vary widely.

Joseph Omega

@E C - You're welcome. 🙏

Joseph Omega

It is important not to have a knee jerk reaction that spins you in the opposite direction. Human nature tends to lead us to the complete opposite of what hurt us. But balance is essential and being too nice is as bad as too mean.

Damien Grant

@E C - When you grow, you grow FAST. I just hope you don't have an equally fast RELAPSE. Let's move on and see.

Joseph Omega

Professional relationships are an exchange of labor for money. Sexual relationships are sex for resources. Romantic relationships? Love, emotional connection, communication, sex? What exactly is the exchange? Is it only cheating when sex is involved? Are other things also cheating?

Eric Linden

@E C - Your persistence really DOES suggest that your layered gaslighting IS really just simple delusions. 🤔 "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." - Sigmund Freud

Joseph Omega

@E C - No, it is because I am concerned that, in your emotive unregulation, you MAY have divulged PERSONAL info you may regret doing.

Joseph Omega

As if you didn't know (or I haven't already explained ad nauseam): 1) I did not call you "Tonto". In fact, the expression with "Kemosabe" in it, is spoken BY Tonto TO The Lone Ranger. 2) I did not CALL you "SIMPleton", but WARNED you that OTHERS may think you so (because of your apparent stubbornness to continue posting responses in the parent thread). 3) All the rest of your posting is just Gaslighting.

Joseph Omega

@E C - You certainly need to delete your name.

Joseph Omega

@E C - You appear to be VASTLY misinformed: https://chatgpt.com/share/181a56a8-4faa-4029-9660-4304f7121b90 And (again) for the use of the whole expression: https://chatgpt.com/share/5c62bc7d-b5f9-4f04-ae82-ea15e0986d29 You are not a slave to your emotive responses. The key to "Intellectual Humility" is to really "know" as little as possible.

Joseph Omega

@Joseph - Gotta love that ChatGPT. The video you shared on Neoteny, objects, and agents pretty much says it all on this subject. The feminist movement is and will always be at an impasse as long as the issues brought up there are not addressed.

Eric Linden

@E C - Don't go hate'n PS. "Yes I know you are paraphrasing" NOW you know. Still, the step from deletions to rewrites is CERTAINLY a move UP. Bravo!

Joseph Omega

@E C - That is why it's called a "paraphrase".

Joseph Omega

@Eric Linden - Nice catch: https://chatgpt.com/share/65735068-6ffc-4693-86d3-6812119648a4

Joseph Omega

Funny how ChatGPT is using the feminist term “self-care” which used to be called “selfishness.” A century ago men and women had a good balance of self-sacrifice. In many ways, that self-sacrifice made them more equal than they are today. Today women have very little self-sacrifice, so they have changed the word “selfishness” to make it sound like their contribution still applies.

Eric Linden

Definitely

Blair

The grass is indeed greener on the other side of that fence ey?

Peter

I just commented a very similar comment, conceptually. With different words, but in the concept of balancing the virtuous self sacrifice and self care. Very similar. In short i agree ☝️

Peter

I have that I have extremely mixed feelings about a person getting to an age and wanting a nice guy How being that nice guy feels like you are the backup prize that perhaps if they could have their cake and eat it, they would still be chasing the bad guy but have fallen back to you almost begrudgingly . Combined with all the negative memories of being a nice guy and being passed up and feeling unwanted and unvalued . Years and years of tears are not easily washed away Especially not buy a nonchalant that was me yesterday this is me now what’s the big deal? I changed. And yet acknowledging the possibility of authentic change and growth and allowing every person to make their mistakes while stumbling uphill And for me personally, that is where the cracks of it is , authentic change and I think it was in the last video that Alex did where he talked about what you should look for when someone tells you a story of change to see if it is authentic and actually heartfelt. I really want to allow people to have that option and yet those negative experiences ….. yeah feeling worthless to the point of saying if i disappear tomorrow.. it a time not quickly forgotten, even if years and years back.

Peter

Authentically honoring yourself is easy say than done in a world that see value in others as a function of what you do for them. This part you don’t need to practice. Taking time for yourself, that requires a level of fighting off all that „take“ even if everyone only takes a little. It add up. Prioitising you is not handed to you as easily And im not saying that is bad. Agood mechanic is valued for the ability to fix a car. That makes them valuable to me. Finding a happy middle developing that hunger that makes you can to hold back the tide. Thats what I am implementing

Peter

I just realised ive probably been blocked by a person on here. Explains why all the posts disappeared but others still @ them Guess I wasn’t very „nice“ 🤭 But all good. No regrets. I said what i said and did not pander or be agreeable beyond what I authentically thought at the time. Or i would not have been surprised. Coz lets be honest, you know when you say something with negative feelings. You know when you @ someone like that. When you are mean. But im like „huh. Rly. Interesting „ I can’t say i particularly pleased about it. Being agreeable and people pleasing dies hard. But i do recognise it as progress. Now if we can add a bunch more dgaf to the recipe, that ‚d be good. Im not going to be bumbed about it for weeks, but im not there yet that i authentically can say, „ doesn’t affect me at all“ Growth, yes 🙌

Peter

I already like the title. It has so much context on getting to a point where you can authentically be you and honor yourself. But that is the result of it all being nice to oneself

Peter

Yeeeeep. I need to work on this. It's funny though - I'm like this because my pops could be such a jerk to my mom... Swore I would never be like that to my lady 🤷‍♂️ Whoops.

Ryan

@Hyperion - No objection here. The only irony is that the very trait that women decry from men is the one that THEY are most adept at, and at the very same time that their "liberation" movements frequently see as part of our "toxicity".

Joseph Omega

Alexander - please would you do a detailed series on co-odepence

Anthony White

It is concerning that AI will only keep improving. But great response from ChatGTP. I recall Jordan Peterson remarked about niceness, which falls under agreeableness in the Big 5 personality traits, that agreeable people have a higher propensity to become resentful. The problem with agreeableness, is that its dispensation, as explained by ChatGPT response above, requires some form of self-sacrifice. And such sacrifice, if it is not done for a higher purpose or greater good, is transactional in its nature. When such transaction is unrequited, the dispenser may become resentful, which can devolve further into rancor and contempt. A contemptuous man is most ready to abuse his power to visit violence upon those whom he resents. I dare say that women's instincts have been evolutionarily fine-tuned to be acutely suspicious of "nice" men as a result; it's for their own safety and preservation.

Hyperion

cant watch the vid, "Error"

Felix Roßmann

I really never believed this subject to be as simple or straight-forward as Alexander has always suggested, so I (inevitably 😄) asked ChatGPT for its insights into "niceness" versus "kindness" and its implications on gendered behavior -- following is a summary of its response: While prioritizing one's needs is important for maintaining long-term well-being, it’s essential to be vigilant about not allowing this concept to become a convenient escape from the demands of genuine kindness and self-sacrifice. In contexts where self-sacrifice is a core value, the emphasis should remain on the intent and integrity of one’s actions. Ethical discernment, community support, and a focus on the higher purpose of kindness can help ensure that the balance between self-care and self-sacrifice is maintained without compromising the moral and spiritual ideals at the heart of genuine kindness. Sustainability is the crucial factor that determines whether acts of niceness and kindness are healthy and effective in the long run. When these acts are sustainable, they can have a lasting, positive impact, allowing individuals to continue contributing to others’ well-being. Prioritizing oneself is justified when it serves the purpose of maintaining this sustainability, ensuring that kindness is not only present in the short term but also capable of being sustained over a lifetime. This approach allows for the optimal balance between self-care and self-sacrifice, ultimately leading to greater and more enduring positive outcomes for all involved. Chivalry often involves a form of self-sacrifice, where men are expected to prioritize the needs, safety, and comfort of others—particularly women—over their own. This can be seen in acts like holding doors open, offering seats, or putting themselves in harm’s way to protect others. Graciousness involves a form of kindness that can sometimes require self-sacrifice (usually from women), such as putting others’ comfort and feelings first, smoothing over conflicts, and showing patience and understanding even in difficult situations. Chivalry and graciousness in particular are traditional expressions of gendered kindness and self-sacrifice, where men and women are expected to prioritize others’ needs in different ways. While these concepts have virtuous elements, they also carry the risk of becoming performative or leading to imbalances if not practiced thoughtfully. But even when acts of chivalry and graciousness are performative or lead to personal imbalances, they can still have significant societal benefits. These behaviors reinforce social norms, promote stability, and contribute to a more respectful and cohesive society. Additionally, they can have positive psychological effects on others, serve as role models, and even lead to personal growth over time. While the ideal is for such behaviors to be genuine and balanced, their performative practice can still play an important role in maintaining social order and fostering a sense of community.

Joseph Omega

@Hyperion - Amazingly well said! 🙇‍♂️

Joseph Omega

A man who truly understands, accepts, and appreciates feminine nature does not pedestalize a woman, as doing so belies his masculinity and purpose. A woman knows, subconsciously and intuitively, that her mercurial moods, emotional maelstrom, and capricious demands -- all her worst instincts -- can be subdued only by a worthy man: strong, steadfast, unshakable, and immovable. Only when a woman truly admires a man will she allow him to love her, and herself to be loved by him.

Hyperion

Great topic! I started being 'nice to myself' when I was 30 and it changed my life. I did indeed used to be needy and inauthentic, and I felt beneath women.

Blair

1st comment; just because Im in Australia and having a slow afternoon at the office! That said, Alex is a beast when it comes to the quality and quantity of video output!

vanidotau


More Creators